There's a stat - there's always a stat! - which frames the issue quite neatly, and it's ground duels, which accounts for dribbles, fouls and tackles.
Liverpool contested 2,746 last season, around 84th percentile for volume by Premier League standards. High, but not super high.
However, they only won 41.7% of them. If you look for a team that contested at least as many while winning such low a proportion, you find Bielsa's Leeds twice and Andoni's Bournemouth.
Liverpool's three lowest ground duel totals since 2011/12 were 2021/22 (2,263), 2018/19 (2,299) and 2019/20 (2,309), the three seasons in which they broke 90 points. More ground duels = more chaos, more transitions. No single stat explains everything, of course, but I think there's a very good chance Liverpool contest fewer ground duels than in many Klopp seasons in 2024/25 as they should have more control of proceedings.
Under Klopp, the pressing at times seemed spontaneous and unplanned leaving players uncertain or disconnected. In the few clips we’ve seen with Slot, he’s said things during training like “come close” and demonstrated bits of one touch football, something pretty foreign during Klopp. Those principles naturally put the players closer together and in “hot zones” as I’ve heard some analysts describe it as.
Instead of a single player igniting a press after possession loss and a player 20 yards away following, you’ll have 3-5 players within 20 yards of each other ready to pounce as a collective when they lose the ball. Even better, if possession isn’t won they’ll fall back into a 4-4-2 sort of mid block!? I can’t wait to see it in action.
World class presentation, Josh. Sleek visual header, and the quality and accessibility of the embedded videos is crazy! No ad prior to viewing or buffering. The details don’t go unnoticed, thank you.
Thanks for commenting on the presentation Christian. I put a lot of extra work into that side. It all counts. I’ve always believed in the importance of the reader experience, so nice to see it paying off.
"Play more as a team" was the comment from Curtis that I was happiest to hear...especially in attack. The attacking talent is in the squad but last season's tactics seemed too dependent on individual brilliance. A tactical plan to attack based on collective actions (vs. individual) is what seems to be in the offing. Very excited to see the first glimpses of this tonight.
I felt klopp was a bit stuck with trying to move to an (even) more technical midfield whilst keeping the same kind of style.. you sort of ended up needing impossibly perfect physical and technical specimens for midfielders..
And they are very hard to sign & keep fit.
Evolution is necessary as our position as a club and squad have changed and the style of play & system do need to change slightly to fit the midfielders we have.. and to hopefully keep everyone fit.
Absolutely intrigued by the differences in slots system.. been watching some vids.. the 6 role seems really interesting and a lot more fluid then a simple “holding” midfielder..
And thoughts on what kind of profile 6 we would need?
I do wonder if Curtis could be really well suited to it..
Can see Curtis Jones as a number 6. He has the height, he is press resistant, he has a very good range of passing, can dribble, can shoot, is mobile. He just needed a bit more physicality which he looks like he is developing. Move back from 8 to 6 like Henderson did.
I agree. While he's probably best used as a "controlling 8", Curtis is most suited to play the 6 in the system that Arne seems to play. He's better at facing our keeper than Wata or Macca. He brings multiple dimensions to the 6 (controlling, ball progression & defensive) which are needed in the modern game. Last night, those were all on display, especially his ability to progress / break lines with his dribbling, not just his passing. I think he starts as the deepest lying midfielder, flanked by Macca & Dom, when we face Ipswich.
I only watched the Betis match this afternoon but watched a number of Feyenord games after Slot had been named.
I have come to the point where I actually see TAA being a square peg in a round hole in the slot side. And wonder if Slot will feel obliged to play him rather than want to play him.
Right back : I don’t think TAA wants to play a traditional right back anymore. I am not sure he has the maturity to accept it like Kimmich has for Bayern and Germany. It what worries me about the 1 year left on his contract. Will he force Slot to play him where he wants rather than where Slot wants.
I actually think TAA’s defence is better than many give him credit for. But I think there are two things he is weak on. First is that he lacks quick acceleration. His max speed is fine but because he has a long stride it takes time to get up to it. His stride at full pace is huge. Usain Bolt was never the fastest over the first 10 meters because of his long stride. I think playing in midfield as a kid meant he never needed to accelerate in the way he does as a right back and this also means he looks a little lead footed when he has to change direction.
And this gets to why I think he may not be suitable as Slot’s right back. If we play Salah with his reduced output and reduced speed makes the need for a fullback that is fast and can go outside or inside of him important. But the fullback also needs to be quick enough to defend with Salah’s reduction in pressing. When TAA was at his best he had Henderson protecting his rear. It allowed him to express himself as recovery was not so important. The same was the case for Robertson he had Gini protect his forward runs. The new Liverpool midfield does not carry those more defensive midfielders. It will require a right back that has better mobility overall and can get back quick enough. Bradley seems to tick more boxes.
But what about inverting him? Lot of talk about Slot inverting his right fullback (Geertruida) but that was more in the way of putting a defensive body in there to counter the counter attack. A bit more in the way Guardiola used to invert both fullbacks at Bayern and Stones at City. TAA does not want to play that type of defensive body. He wants to be much more offensive. The way Klopp and Lindjers fitted Trent in put a lot of pressure on Konate as well. And if you watch VVD over those games in 2022/23 he was unsure where to be, I.e. covering Konate or covering the back post because TAA was not always back to help defend in the right centre back slot. Sometimes he moved too far up field and could not get back. Would a left sided central defender instead of Robertson help? Possibly. But Liverpool are the only team that inverts with such an offensive player that does not necessarily give ballast in the centre. Is that better suited to Bradley as well with his pace?
TAA wants to play in midfield and that is likely going to be a part of the negotiating over a new contract. He would be stupid not to try nd negotiate that. Being a scouter he will get a lot more leeway from the fans if he leaves on a free because he was not giving this guarantee.
So where in Midfield? He is not a number 8. Nobody will say he is better in that position than is Szoboszlai and MacAllister. Eight also takes away his biggest weapon the long pass.
That leaves the number 6 or a double pivot.
Is he a lone number 6? Not on his own. He does not have the discipline to play it on his own. He is not disciplined enough. He takes too many risks.. Maybe if we still had Gini and Henderson he could be more a Pirlo type player. But we don’t have that protection anymore. Could he play as a six with an inverted fullback? Again, no because he has to do it solo for much of the match.
So that leaves a double pivot. Now Slot has said he plays 433 or 4141. Playing 4231 may give more defensive ballast but that means 6 defenders and 4 attackers.. it reduces Liverpools attacking ability. Maybe a tactic for away from Anfield. TAA playing there removes the need for the inverting fullback which provides more central ballast in 5 attack 5 defence split. But is TAA disciplined enough to do from the number 6 role what Henderson did for him over the years. And both Thiago and Gini did on the other side nd cover the fullback? This is where I have my doubts. I wonder where Guardiola or Arteta would play Trent. Because what I have seen of Slot he is more towards Guardiola/Arteta style than Klopp was.
This is why I wonder whether LFC and TAA can get to an agreement?
However, I am sure slot and many managers will have spent a fair amount of time watching Liverpool and thinking about what they could or would do with Trent in their team..
Whilst there are systems coaches.. it’s worth noting the best of them very much build and alter their formations and tweak their systems around the best players…
Klopps 4231 became a 433 because of Bobby.. pep’s system altered around Messi, has altered around Haaland and other players.
It’s one of the reasons why it is hard to tell just how good a managers actually are, how much is the manger and their system, how much is the players making it work, how much is unique to making a system work based off one player.. (ETH has never really got over not having de Jong)
So whilst I’m concerned about where Trent fits in, and also wanting Bradley to feature a lot (and that helps with Salah’s lack of dribbling) I’m also pretty sure that slot will have a plan for Trent..
A lot may think Trent is the answer to all his tactical dreams and able to unlock a style of play he’s always dreamed of.
There is a really weird perception of Trent as a problem in this country because a lot of people have very ingrained views of what a player in each position has to do.
Bradley had a fantastic start.. not least cos teams were set up to deal with us with Trent inverting and suddenly we had Bradley as a faux winger charging into that space.
However, even when not fully fit and returning from injury, the difference Trent’s passing made was clearly obvious on return… and our defence didn’t get worse.
It’s interesting.. but it’s only a problem if you lack imagination
What you forget is how the rest of the team have to set up round him.
As I said Trent as a right back, It is now obvious he does not want to play right back in the traditional way.
As an inverted right back he places huge pressure on both the CDM to act as another centre half and on the Right CB to cover much greater ground. But as I said TAA is much more offensive as an inverting RB. That means the team is more a 4 defence 6 attack formation. Further when he did play it at the end of 22/23 he had Henderson covering as well. The dynamic of the team has changed with far more attacking 8’s. Add in Salah’s waning powers and the right side has changed meaning inverting is much more risky now. Maybe a Lacan playing as LB will alleviate this problem but it then reduces the effectiveness of the left side when attacking.
But maybe imagination also says TAA maybe the player that is the square peg. Countinho was effectively that once Klopp had put the famous from three together. Coutinho was never a midfielder and when the four played together it unbalanced things. When he was sacrificed they did not buy a like for like. They bought a better CB and GK.
City let Agüero go eventually because he did not fit Guardiolas style. Arsenal sold Abameyang and Ozil because they did not suit Arteta. Juventus sold Baggio because he did not suit Lippi. There are allot of time where a club have sold their better players because they did not suit the manager.
The team wasn’t set up around Trent - he plays directly behind Mo Salah who was always left as the further player forward and did not track back and help out the way mane did on the other side.
Trent was actually left massively exposed.
Henderson did provide cover, but Gini did on the other side.
They were covering the position of our fullbacks as basically auxiliary wingers.. and robbo and Trent both hold the record for defenders with most assists in the league( there’s one between them)
This is how teams work.
It is no different to having a DM to cover for your playmaker midfielder or whatnot.
The inverted fullback position leaves the right CDM exposed but this is as much because they don’t really shift across and use a left FB/CB as the other teams that use the formation do.. or indeed 4 CB’s.
Are Man City setting their team up to cover John stones when they use 3 other Cb’s to allow him to step into midfield? Yes of course they are.
Teams do sell their best players but we don’t want to sell countinho.
City let agureo leave because he was old and injury prone..
Trent is a slightly unusual player due to his range of passing, but he’s not a liability.
Whether slot sees Trent as a problem or solution is up to him and his imagination, but I would be amazed if didn’t have a plan.
Whether Trent wants to stay and do that is a different question..
But we are not in a good position to try and sell Trent anyway. 1 years left, won’t get anywhere near value and he can just hang on to go to Madrid.
There's a stat - there's always a stat! - which frames the issue quite neatly, and it's ground duels, which accounts for dribbles, fouls and tackles.
Liverpool contested 2,746 last season, around 84th percentile for volume by Premier League standards. High, but not super high.
However, they only won 41.7% of them. If you look for a team that contested at least as many while winning such low a proportion, you find Bielsa's Leeds twice and Andoni's Bournemouth.
Liverpool's three lowest ground duel totals since 2011/12 were 2021/22 (2,263), 2018/19 (2,299) and 2019/20 (2,309), the three seasons in which they broke 90 points. More ground duels = more chaos, more transitions. No single stat explains everything, of course, but I think there's a very good chance Liverpool contest fewer ground duels than in many Klopp seasons in 2024/25 as they should have more control of proceedings.
Under Klopp, the pressing at times seemed spontaneous and unplanned leaving players uncertain or disconnected. In the few clips we’ve seen with Slot, he’s said things during training like “come close” and demonstrated bits of one touch football, something pretty foreign during Klopp. Those principles naturally put the players closer together and in “hot zones” as I’ve heard some analysts describe it as.
Instead of a single player igniting a press after possession loss and a player 20 yards away following, you’ll have 3-5 players within 20 yards of each other ready to pounce as a collective when they lose the ball. Even better, if possession isn’t won they’ll fall back into a 4-4-2 sort of mid block!? I can’t wait to see it in action.
World class presentation, Josh. Sleek visual header, and the quality and accessibility of the embedded videos is crazy! No ad prior to viewing or buffering. The details don’t go unnoticed, thank you.
Thanks for commenting on the presentation Christian. I put a lot of extra work into that side. It all counts. I’ve always believed in the importance of the reader experience, so nice to see it paying off.
"Play more as a team" was the comment from Curtis that I was happiest to hear...especially in attack. The attacking talent is in the squad but last season's tactics seemed too dependent on individual brilliance. A tactical plan to attack based on collective actions (vs. individual) is what seems to be in the offing. Very excited to see the first glimpses of this tonight.
I am all for more control..
I felt klopp was a bit stuck with trying to move to an (even) more technical midfield whilst keeping the same kind of style.. you sort of ended up needing impossibly perfect physical and technical specimens for midfielders..
And they are very hard to sign & keep fit.
Evolution is necessary as our position as a club and squad have changed and the style of play & system do need to change slightly to fit the midfielders we have.. and to hopefully keep everyone fit.
Absolutely intrigued by the differences in slots system.. been watching some vids.. the 6 role seems really interesting and a lot more fluid then a simple “holding” midfielder..
And thoughts on what kind of profile 6 we would need?
I do wonder if Curtis could be really well suited to it..
Can see Curtis Jones as a number 6. He has the height, he is press resistant, he has a very good range of passing, can dribble, can shoot, is mobile. He just needed a bit more physicality which he looks like he is developing. Move back from 8 to 6 like Henderson did.
I agree. While he's probably best used as a "controlling 8", Curtis is most suited to play the 6 in the system that Arne seems to play. He's better at facing our keeper than Wata or Macca. He brings multiple dimensions to the 6 (controlling, ball progression & defensive) which are needed in the modern game. Last night, those were all on display, especially his ability to progress / break lines with his dribbling, not just his passing. I think he starts as the deepest lying midfielder, flanked by Macca & Dom, when we face Ipswich.
I only watched the Betis match this afternoon but watched a number of Feyenord games after Slot had been named.
I have come to the point where I actually see TAA being a square peg in a round hole in the slot side. And wonder if Slot will feel obliged to play him rather than want to play him.
Right back : I don’t think TAA wants to play a traditional right back anymore. I am not sure he has the maturity to accept it like Kimmich has for Bayern and Germany. It what worries me about the 1 year left on his contract. Will he force Slot to play him where he wants rather than where Slot wants.
I actually think TAA’s defence is better than many give him credit for. But I think there are two things he is weak on. First is that he lacks quick acceleration. His max speed is fine but because he has a long stride it takes time to get up to it. His stride at full pace is huge. Usain Bolt was never the fastest over the first 10 meters because of his long stride. I think playing in midfield as a kid meant he never needed to accelerate in the way he does as a right back and this also means he looks a little lead footed when he has to change direction.
And this gets to why I think he may not be suitable as Slot’s right back. If we play Salah with his reduced output and reduced speed makes the need for a fullback that is fast and can go outside or inside of him important. But the fullback also needs to be quick enough to defend with Salah’s reduction in pressing. When TAA was at his best he had Henderson protecting his rear. It allowed him to express himself as recovery was not so important. The same was the case for Robertson he had Gini protect his forward runs. The new Liverpool midfield does not carry those more defensive midfielders. It will require a right back that has better mobility overall and can get back quick enough. Bradley seems to tick more boxes.
But what about inverting him? Lot of talk about Slot inverting his right fullback (Geertruida) but that was more in the way of putting a defensive body in there to counter the counter attack. A bit more in the way Guardiola used to invert both fullbacks at Bayern and Stones at City. TAA does not want to play that type of defensive body. He wants to be much more offensive. The way Klopp and Lindjers fitted Trent in put a lot of pressure on Konate as well. And if you watch VVD over those games in 2022/23 he was unsure where to be, I.e. covering Konate or covering the back post because TAA was not always back to help defend in the right centre back slot. Sometimes he moved too far up field and could not get back. Would a left sided central defender instead of Robertson help? Possibly. But Liverpool are the only team that inverts with such an offensive player that does not necessarily give ballast in the centre. Is that better suited to Bradley as well with his pace?
TAA wants to play in midfield and that is likely going to be a part of the negotiating over a new contract. He would be stupid not to try nd negotiate that. Being a scouter he will get a lot more leeway from the fans if he leaves on a free because he was not giving this guarantee.
So where in Midfield? He is not a number 8. Nobody will say he is better in that position than is Szoboszlai and MacAllister. Eight also takes away his biggest weapon the long pass.
That leaves the number 6 or a double pivot.
Is he a lone number 6? Not on his own. He does not have the discipline to play it on his own. He is not disciplined enough. He takes too many risks.. Maybe if we still had Gini and Henderson he could be more a Pirlo type player. But we don’t have that protection anymore. Could he play as a six with an inverted fullback? Again, no because he has to do it solo for much of the match.
So that leaves a double pivot. Now Slot has said he plays 433 or 4141. Playing 4231 may give more defensive ballast but that means 6 defenders and 4 attackers.. it reduces Liverpools attacking ability. Maybe a tactic for away from Anfield. TAA playing there removes the need for the inverting fullback which provides more central ballast in 5 attack 5 defence split. But is TAA disciplined enough to do from the number 6 role what Henderson did for him over the years. And both Thiago and Gini did on the other side nd cover the fullback? This is where I have my doubts. I wonder where Guardiola or Arteta would play Trent. Because what I have seen of Slot he is more towards Guardiola/Arteta style than Klopp was.
This is why I wonder whether LFC and TAA can get to an agreement?
It will be fascinating.
However, I am sure slot and many managers will have spent a fair amount of time watching Liverpool and thinking about what they could or would do with Trent in their team..
Whilst there are systems coaches.. it’s worth noting the best of them very much build and alter their formations and tweak their systems around the best players…
Klopps 4231 became a 433 because of Bobby.. pep’s system altered around Messi, has altered around Haaland and other players.
It’s one of the reasons why it is hard to tell just how good a managers actually are, how much is the manger and their system, how much is the players making it work, how much is unique to making a system work based off one player.. (ETH has never really got over not having de Jong)
So whilst I’m concerned about where Trent fits in, and also wanting Bradley to feature a lot (and that helps with Salah’s lack of dribbling) I’m also pretty sure that slot will have a plan for Trent..
But teams do sell their better players to improve the team as a whole.
The problem for Slot is where does he play TAA and whether TAA is the best player that he has in that position.
Rarely unless they want to leave tbh.
You might think that’s the problem.
A lot may think Trent is the answer to all his tactical dreams and able to unlock a style of play he’s always dreamed of.
There is a really weird perception of Trent as a problem in this country because a lot of people have very ingrained views of what a player in each position has to do.
Bradley had a fantastic start.. not least cos teams were set up to deal with us with Trent inverting and suddenly we had Bradley as a faux winger charging into that space.
However, even when not fully fit and returning from injury, the difference Trent’s passing made was clearly obvious on return… and our defence didn’t get worse.
It’s interesting.. but it’s only a problem if you lack imagination
What you forget is how the rest of the team have to set up round him.
As I said Trent as a right back, It is now obvious he does not want to play right back in the traditional way.
As an inverted right back he places huge pressure on both the CDM to act as another centre half and on the Right CB to cover much greater ground. But as I said TAA is much more offensive as an inverting RB. That means the team is more a 4 defence 6 attack formation. Further when he did play it at the end of 22/23 he had Henderson covering as well. The dynamic of the team has changed with far more attacking 8’s. Add in Salah’s waning powers and the right side has changed meaning inverting is much more risky now. Maybe a Lacan playing as LB will alleviate this problem but it then reduces the effectiveness of the left side when attacking.
But maybe imagination also says TAA maybe the player that is the square peg. Countinho was effectively that once Klopp had put the famous from three together. Coutinho was never a midfielder and when the four played together it unbalanced things. When he was sacrificed they did not buy a like for like. They bought a better CB and GK.
City let Agüero go eventually because he did not fit Guardiolas style. Arsenal sold Abameyang and Ozil because they did not suit Arteta. Juventus sold Baggio because he did not suit Lippi. There are allot of time where a club have sold their better players because they did not suit the manager.
The team wasn’t set up around Trent - he plays directly behind Mo Salah who was always left as the further player forward and did not track back and help out the way mane did on the other side.
Trent was actually left massively exposed.
Henderson did provide cover, but Gini did on the other side.
They were covering the position of our fullbacks as basically auxiliary wingers.. and robbo and Trent both hold the record for defenders with most assists in the league( there’s one between them)
This is how teams work.
It is no different to having a DM to cover for your playmaker midfielder or whatnot.
The inverted fullback position leaves the right CDM exposed but this is as much because they don’t really shift across and use a left FB/CB as the other teams that use the formation do.. or indeed 4 CB’s.
Are Man City setting their team up to cover John stones when they use 3 other Cb’s to allow him to step into midfield? Yes of course they are.
Teams do sell their best players but we don’t want to sell countinho.
City let agureo leave because he was old and injury prone..
Trent is a slightly unusual player due to his range of passing, but he’s not a liability.
Whether slot sees Trent as a problem or solution is up to him and his imagination, but I would be amazed if didn’t have a plan.
Whether Trent wants to stay and do that is a different question..
But we are not in a good position to try and sell Trent anyway. 1 years left, won’t get anywhere near value and he can just hang on to go to Madrid.
Great read as always , the point on injury is a valid one too and hopefully that point is proved throughout the season
Cheers Mark.